Last night was Ignite Phoenix #4 which we held at the Tempe Center for the Arts and it as awesome. We had at least 500 people there and everyone was super cool. The after party was at La Bocca wine bar near 7th and Mill Ave and it was that intersection when the evening took a turn for the dreadful.
I pulled into a semi empty lot at about 10pm and parked to go to La Bocca. There were 6 other cars and a few taxis in the lot and I assumed things would be cool. Well in Tempe this is the wrong assumption. When I came out of La Bocca at 11:30 my car was gone and so were most of the other cars that were there.
A nice group of folks from Ignite Phoenix were there as well because their cars were gone as well. Jay Thompson (@phxreguy) has a good write up here.
When I got home I called the Tempe police and talked with Katie to discuss the Tempe Towing law and in particular Sec. 32-2. Maximum charges and fees; release of vehicles:
(a) No private towing carrier shall hold or attempt to hold any vehicle towed from any location within the city without the consent of the owner or operator thereof as security for accrued towing and storage charges. Any such vehicle shall be immediately released, regardless of impound location, to the owner or operator thereof upon the production of proof of ownership or agency, as hereinafter defined.
My issue was that the towing company dispatcher was telling me that I would have to wait till 9am to pick up my car but the law says the “vehicle shall be immediately released, regardless of impound location, to the owner or operator thereof upon the production of proof of ownership”. To me this means that when I can show that the car is mine I can get my car. Katie explained that the law does not require that the lot be open 24 hours a day to which I replied that it also does not not say that either so there is room for interpretation either way.
That is issue #1.
I sensed that this was going no where so moved onto Sec. 32-6. Notice to public of right to tow. Part b:
(b) Signs will be a minimum of twelve (12) inches by eighteen (18) inches in size and will be mounted at a minimum height of five (5) feet and a maximum height of ten (10) feet above the ground.
Here is the sign in question.
Unless Jay is a giant I am pretty sure it is under 12′ by 18′ and is lower than 5 feet off the ground. Monster is the Irony here, ha!
Katie explained that I could file a complaint but that someone would have to call me back first.
30 minutes later Karen Scheffler called me back. Ms. or possible Officer Scheffler was pointedly unhappy about having to speak with me and explained that officer Tony Miller had already been to the scene and saw that the signs were all in order. I asked to speak with Officer Miller and was sent to his voice mail.
30 minutes later (1am) I was called by Officer Miller who was very nice and happy to talk to me about this situation. I asked about the size of the signs and he felt confident that they were up to code as they have to regularly check these types of lots around the city. He explained that this is a weekly issue for his beat and that it is a regular topic and Town Council meetings. He recommended that I contact the Mill Ave. Disctrict which is a coalition of Mill Ave business owners who are trying to fight this type of behavior as it is hurting their business. i thanked him for his time and went to bed.
That is issue #2.
I woke up this morning and got the car out of the lot a bit after 9am for $135. While I was there I noticed at least 10 other invoices on the desk. At $135 each that is about $1300 a night. Keep in mind this was a tuesday night in the summer in Phoenix/Tempe which means things are slow. That means conservitavely these guys are bringing in $300k a year from this one lot!
The next issue is still with Sec 32-6 but not on part e:
(e) The private towing carrier shall post a sign with a minimum one inch lettering with the maximum charges and fees as established by council resolution (see Appendix A) at the main business entry of the impound location.
Once again looking at this great picture of Jay you will notice that the only part of the sign with one inch lettering is the part that says Restricted Parking. The law states taht the charges and fees must also be this size when in fact they are about 1/8″.
That is issue #3.
While I was getting my car another customer was waiting and asked if I had seen him get pepper sprayed, see Jay’s post. I said I had missed that part but was very interested when he mentioned that the one car not towed was entered and driven away by a Tow Truck employee. This tells me that no one representing the property owner was actually at the scene which is in violation of Sec. 32-5. Authority to tow.
It shall be unlawful for a private towing carrier to tow or transport a motor vehicle from private property without the permission of the owner or operator of the vehicle unless such private towing carrier receives a request from a law enforcement agency or the express written permission from the owner of the property or the agent of the owner, who has complied with requirements of this section. The owner or the owner’s agent shall either sign each towing order or authorize the tow by a written contract which is valid for a specific length of time. The private towing carrier may not act as the agent of the owner. A copy of the written contract shall be made readily available to the law enforcement agency upon request and include the owner’s or owner’s agent name and current telephone numbers.
(Code 1967, § 33A-5; Ord. No. 2006.77, 1-4-07)
I am posting this for three reasons:
1) I need to release these thoughts in order to move on from them, as the Dhammapada states:
“He abused me, mistreated me, defeated me, robbed me.”
Harboring such thoughts keeps hatred alive.
“He abused me, mistreated me, defeated me, robbed me.”
Releasing such thoughts banishes hatred for all time.
2) I want to let others know about this scam and hope that it helps them avoid it. Start by not going to Tempe until they change their laws.
3) I want to see if any lawyers think that my Issues are valid and what steps may be taken.
With love from PHOENIX, peace out!
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Great summary of this fiasco / rip-off / scam Roger.
When I went to get my car this morning, there were TWO stacks of invoices, so I think your estimate is *very* conservative.
I’m not a politician or an attorney, but I have serious reservations that signage complies with the Tempe City Code. Another point is section 32-6(a)(5) states: “Each sign shall state, “Tempe City Code, Section 32-6.”" I don’t see that language on the sign. (several cities are listed, but Tempe isn’t among them).
The use of a “bait car” and the highly suspect signage aside, it it obvious this is nothing but a scam to bilk people out of as much money as possible. If the owner of the lot really doesn’t want people parking there, more prominent signs or a chain across the entrance would solve the problem. Since none of that is done, the only logical conclusion is the owner WANTS people to park there and get towed.
It’s disgraceful.
[...] Opine: Roger Williams (@halfacat), another victim – Scam Alert! Towing Scam in Tempe, AZ // Hello there! If you are new here, you might want to subscribe to the RSS feed for updates on [...]
Let me guess…the lot was across from where Borders used to be on the dirt/gravel where Long Wong’s used to be.
The city needs to really clean up it’s act or there will be more “used to be’s.”
GRT2
What’s especially goofy about this is that, hours earlier, some Tempe politicians compelled a captive Ignite audience to listen to their sales pitch about the greatness of Tempe.
Yes, there are many good things about the city, but it’s experiences like this one that make a far more lasting impression than cheap marketeeering.
Maybe the next Ignite needs to be, if not actually in Phoenix, then Scottsdale or Glendale. But not Tempe.
[...] Several people had their cars towed while attending the after party, which sounds like it is part of an ongoing issue in Tempe. It was [...]
Greg – spot is the same as you guessed it.
James – agreed which is what is driving me to make a point of banging the drum on this. I have reached out to said officials and am awaiting a response.
I’m familiar with the lot in question and my first question is “what about the no parking sign with the giant orange and yellow barricade at it’s base”? I thought we as a country were at least attempting to traverse boldly into the new era of self-accountability. The city placed a DOUBLE-SIDED no parking sign in the lot, maybe you didn’t see it IN THE CENTER OF THE LOT.
My second question is, what do you mean you “assumed things would be cool”? Is that your sense of entitlement speaking? You mean, “cool” as in “if the towing company comes to the lot and catches me red-handed they will be “cool” and leave my illegally parked car in the shadow of 5 NO PARKING SIGNS”. YES FIVE SIGNS WERE POSTED THAT NIGHT. STOP MISINFORMING THE PUBLIC. Towing companies get paid to tow illegally parked cars.
Why not try this on for size, “I made a mistake, no one is responsible for my mistakes but me, I’ve learned my lesson. I will not park in POSTED NO PARKING ZONES. I will cease bashing the City of Tempe and legally operating towing companies because of my own negligence, sense of entitlement or capricious expectations of WORKING PEOPLE to be “cool” when it suits me. Are you “cool” when it is time for you to be paid for your services? Oh yeah, you’re a real estate speculator. Fraud and toxic assests anyone? I rest my case.
Thank you Mr/Ms What about the Sign? for first of all visiting my site and taking the time to post here.
I appreciate your stance on this issue and agree that self-accountability is important. In this case we disagree on a few things.
In response to your point about the ‘”the no parking sign with the giant orange and yellow barricade at it’s base”‘. This type of sign has nothing to do with a private parking lot. This type of sign is for indicating that a section of public street is not available for parking. According to Tempe law as cited in my original post a private lot owner must follow a number of guidelines to notify the public that if they park in the lot then they will be towed and how much the fine will be and where they can get their car back from. This sign follows none of these rules/laws.
My assumption of cool is just a general method of seeing numerous cars, a few of which I know of, and taxis parked in the lot and the lack of signs telling me that if I park there I will be towed (see above paragraph and my entire post) that I should be good to park there.
The reason I see this as a scam is listed out in my post above. This lot is not setup according to Tempe law regarding towing. If the property owner is purely interested in not having anyone park in the lot then why not follow the law and post the appropriate signs so that people can clearly see that parking in that lot will result in being towed. Since they are not doing this and allowing taxi cabs and unlisted towing company vehicles to park in the lot I can only assume that they want people to park there and get towed and pay $135 to get their car back. As I mentioned above this must be quite lucrative.
As far as who I am and what I do you have missed the mark completely. ‘Real Estate Spectator’? Where did you come up with that?
Oh and Mr/Ms Richeousness/Self Accountability, thanks again for taking the time to post your opinion but not your name. Ironic much?
ARS 9-499.05 states, in part, that:
B. The owner or agent of the owner of the private property shall be
DEEMED TO HAVE GIVEN CONSENT TO UNRESTRICTED PARKING by the general public in any parking area of the private property UNLESS such parking area is posted with signs as prescribed by this subsection which are CLEARLY VISIBLE and READABLE from ANY POINT within the parking area and at each entrance.
The Arizona Court of Appeals has stated that if the signage requirements are not met, there can be NO RECOVERY for the towing company: “before a legally binding contract is created, the towing company obviously would have to establish that the signs complied with all elements of § 9-499.05(B), including the requirement that the signs be ‘clearly visible and readable from any point within the parking area and at each entrance.’ ” Adage Towing & Recovery, Inc. v. City of Tucson, 187 Ariz. 396, 399 n.5, 930 P.2d 473, 476 (App. 1996).
In other words, it’s the TOWING COMPANY’S burden to prove that the signs were clearly visible and readable from ALL POINTS in the parking area and at each entrance. Do you think Monster Heavy Towing & Recovery, LLC can do that?
The Arizona Court of Appeals has also said that IF THE SIGNAGE REQUIREMENTS ARE MET, then the tow company’s recovery (if any) is against the PARKING VIOLATOR, as opposed to the vehicle owner. “A sign that complies with A.R.S. 9-499.05 creates a legally binding contract between the towing company and the PARKING VIOLATOR which would permit a towing company to seek relief for its contractual damages.” Adage Towing & Recovery, Inc. v. City of Tucson, 187 Ariz. 396, 398, 930 P.2d 473, 475 (App. 1996).
Regardless of who the alleged parking violator is, the tow company MUST release the car to the owner. The Arizona Supreme Court has held that a towing company that tows a car that was parked on private property without the property owner’s permission committs THEFT when the tow company refuses to release the car to the owner.
“According to the undisputed facts, the petitioner [a towing company], without lawful authority, knowingly controlled the property of another with the intent to restore it only upon payment of compensation. We believe the elements of the crime as specified under A.R.S. § 13-1801(2) and § 13-1802(A) have been satisfied, and that the petitioner may be charged with theft.” Capson v. Superior Court of State of Ariz., In and For Maricopa County, 139 Ariz. 113, 116, 677 P.2d 276, 279 (1984).
Hi
I'm a 54 yr old businessman from Dallas. Someone told us to go downtown and eat at a great burger place. We went into the lot by Jack in the Box, went to the burger place and came back. We weren't gone 30 min and my car was gone. When I parked there were no signs that I could see. I called the police suspecting that my car was stolen and discovered it was taken by Monster Towing. I looked the lot over and where the large lights were knocked out there was a sign, “Invisible”. Now my rental is at the impound up in Phoenix and I have a flight at 6:00 AM. They won’t let me get it till 11:00 PM and I must pay $150. (I have no idea if they damaged the car and that will mean I have to fork out cash to AVIS.) Hopefully all of my electronics are there.
30 min, this is predatory.
What do I write, where should I write it and how much hell can I raise? News station? Any suggestions email me at tschlaack@gmail.com
Thanks
bummer deal man. it looks like they have updated the signs at the lot but the predatory nature of the tow companies in tempe cannot be denied. unfortuantely no one who lives in tempe spends much time in the shops there so a vote on this probably wont come up for a while.
I will probably be at a civil case trial/ mediation against Le Parc HOA and their attorneys on Friday, May 28th. The case against Monster Towing and Le Parc originated back in July '09 as a a small claims matter when I registered my complaint at the Arrowhead court in Surprise, Az and then summoned Monster Towing and Le Parc through certified mail. I was unable to receive an answer to the summons from the owners of Monster, yet their appearance will be required to bring out the important issues at the hearing.
I only recently discovered that the defendants' attorneys were allowed to, and did, escalate the status of the case from small claims up to a civil case where the potential for settlement damages are now raised from $2500 to $9999. Le Parc's attorneys, no doubt, will try to prove malice or neglect on my part, and then try to reward themselves from my empty pockets. Times are tough, you know.
It is certain that Le Parc HOA had, and yet may have, a contract with Monster Towing.
Based on having my car parked for a mere 15 to 20 minutes in an unmarked zone, while giving an estimate in a customer's home, and then having my car disappear… without a sound… 20 feet from the living room where we were conversing- and then having to borrow cash in order to come up with $305 to pay the towing yard that night to get my car, my cell phone, records and a cash deposit held in my vehicle.
Oh yes, and there was also a car that had pulled up on the other side of the street just after I had parked, and lingered there for about a minute before it left- before I got out to go into the customer's home…(I explained the details to a few of our friends back east and they expressed an interest in finding out where the smell of it all might lead).
In the mean time, although time may be short before the outcome of the hearing on the 28th, if there is anyone out there that would like to share about this matter, you can contact me if you'd like.
Monsters must come to the light of conscience or else be separated from it…perhaps for a very long time.
I have phoned and emailed Channel 3 News and the Tempe Legislator (Eddie) who wrote a bill (it was Vetoed by Jan Brewer) against unfair towing fees. Neither have called or emailed back. I feel that there is MUCH more to this story. By the way, the guys from Monster Towing wait just behind a wall at the back of T-Mobile & Jack-In-The-Box for people to leave. Cars are literally towed within seconds.
I have some information as well. My car wasn't even towed and Monster has begun threatening to make a negative credit report if I don't give them money. Please email me.
The mediation yielded no settlement. The trial date will be set soon- to happen in about 6 weeks. Statements/ advisement are welcome.
Money for what? How did they contact you, and why?
Oops, I meant to reply to Jen. How did they contact you and why and why did they say they wanted money?
I was towed from the same lot last night. I went to the Monster towing lot and told them that as I understood Arizona law they were required to give me my car back and I was not required to pay the fee. The guy working there said they would garnish my wages if I didn't pay. I told him there were a long series of steps that must occur before my wages are garnished. He said he was not an expert at the law and gave me my car back.
Does anyone know what I should be expecting? Will they take me to small claims court?
i would suggest asking a lawyer about anything like that.
good work on getting them to give you your car back though.
Hi “Ben”, It was nice talking with you today. Take a photo of where you were parked to show how the parking space was unmarked. Visuals are always good evidence! “Jen”
what happened to you guys in your fight? Just curious.